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	<title>Comments on: OK mzbitca&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/03/ok-mzbitca/</link>
	<description>exactly that</description>
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		<title>By: Dreams and Choice and the Horrors of people liking you&#8230; &#171; random babble&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/03/ok-mzbitca/#comment-1556</link>
		<dc:creator>Dreams and Choice and the Horrors of people liking you&#8230; &#171; random babble&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombitchez.wordpress.com/?p=1193#comment-1556</guid>
		<description>[...] Twilight blogging here, here, here, here, here, and here.  Be sure to follow the links to the posts by Mzbitca at What a Crazy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Twilight blogging here, here, here, here, here, and here.  Be sure to follow the links to the posts by Mzbitca at What a Crazy [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Thursday Blogwhoring &#171; random babble&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/03/ok-mzbitca/#comment-1555</link>
		<dc:creator>Thursday Blogwhoring &#171; random babble&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombitchez.wordpress.com/?p=1193#comment-1555</guid>
		<description>[...] b/t Random Babble and What a Crazy Random Happenstance!  (mzbitca)  (See more here, here, here, here, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] b/t Random Babble and What a Crazy Random Happenstance!  (mzbitca)  (See more here, here, here, here, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bride and Prejudice, Foundation books, Twilight</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/03/ok-mzbitca/#comment-1554</link>
		<dc:creator>Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bride and Prejudice, Foundation books, Twilight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombitchez.wordpress.com/?p=1193#comment-1554</guid>
		<description>[...] and Ouyang Dan are blogging their way through the teen vampire romance Twilight here, here, here, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and Ouyang Dan are blogging their way through the teen vampire romance Twilight here, here, here, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Onne</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/03/ok-mzbitca/#comment-1553</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Onne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 13:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombitchez.wordpress.com/?p=1193#comment-1553</guid>
		<description>I get it all the time. It&#039;s a shame that I spend most of my time reading/watching anything wishing the creator had gone that bit further to make the female characters their own.

It&#039;s ironic that the series chronicles Bella&#039;s thoughts (I hear in first person, correct me if I&#039;m wrong), but that somehow it&#039;s Edward and his motivations and moods that predominate the series.

Maybe writing in first person was a mistake, in that writing thoughts accurately is a challenge, and likely to make the character in quesiton look vacuous and repetitive even if done realistically, because a train of thoughts isn&#039;t the same thing as showing their motivations and analyses and actions.

She&#039;s the main character in that she&#039;s a blatant stand-in for the audience (and done well, there&#039;s nothing wrong with this), but in many ways although the plot is shaped around her, her impact on it seems to be small. If she spends the whole time placating everyone else, it reminds me of the theory that women are trained to aplogise for taking up space and existing. She&#039;s the main character, but she finds herself always apoligising for existing,  and shifting the attention to Edward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get it all the time. It&#8217;s a shame that I spend most of my time reading/watching anything wishing the creator had gone that bit further to make the female characters their own.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s ironic that the series chronicles Bella&#8217;s thoughts (I hear in first person, correct me if I&#8217;m wrong), but that somehow it&#8217;s Edward and his motivations and moods that predominate the series.</p>
<p>Maybe writing in first person was a mistake, in that writing thoughts accurately is a challenge, and likely to make the character in quesiton look vacuous and repetitive even if done realistically, because a train of thoughts isn&#8217;t the same thing as showing their motivations and analyses and actions.</p>
<p>She&#8217;s the main character in that she&#8217;s a blatant stand-in for the audience (and done well, there&#8217;s nothing wrong with this), but in many ways although the plot is shaped around her, her impact on it seems to be small. If she spends the whole time placating everyone else, it reminds me of the theory that women are trained to aplogise for taking up space and existing. She&#8217;s the main character, but she finds herself always apoligising for existing,  and shifting the attention to Edward.</p>
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		<title>By: The Game of Cat and Mouse &#171; random babble&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/03/ok-mzbitca/#comment-1552</link>
		<dc:creator>The Game of Cat and Mouse &#171; random babble&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombitchez.wordpress.com/?p=1193#comment-1552</guid>
		<description>[...] Twilight blogging: Here, here, here, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Twilight blogging: Here, here, here, and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ouyang Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/03/ok-mzbitca/#comment-1551</link>
		<dc:creator>Ouyang Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 21:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombitchez.wordpress.com/?p=1193#comment-1551</guid>
		<description>&gt;i?I don’t think characters like Bella let the book down. I feel the book lets characters like Bella down.&lt;/i&gt;

Yes.  This.

I really feel the author could have done more w/ her.  A lot more.  More to be fair to her, if this is, in the author&#039;s own words, Bella&#039;s story, and not actually Edward&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;i?I don’t think characters like Bella let the book down. I feel the book lets characters like Bella down.</p>
<p>Yes.  This.</p>
<p>I really feel the author could have done more w/ her.  A lot more.  More to be fair to her, if this is, in the author&#8217;s own words, Bella&#8217;s story, and not actually Edward&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Onne</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/03/ok-mzbitca/#comment-1550</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Onne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombitchez.wordpress.com/?p=1193#comment-1550</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah, and I want to add that I generally feel for the Bella-esque heroines in fiction. I don&#039;t expect every female character to be perfect, super-strong, amazingly intelligent, always do the right thing etc. I find myself empathising with &#039;typical girl characters&#039; and their struggles and weaknesses, depending on how well-written they are, and I find myself willing them on to grow, to show new strengths, to wise up that the bad boy isn&#039;t worth it: to act like a real person and grow. I root for them, that the author may give them bigger parts, help them to learn to help themselves, and show them as capable of great things, despite insecurities or weaknesses. I want them to blossom, to begin to push the boundaries of the role they thought they had. And you&#039;d think this works well in fantastical series, but no. Unfortunately, most authors never get past &#039;girl with insecurities who obsesses about boys&#039;. I like my heroines to transcend these normal problems, to learn and grow. I tend to just get girls who are left behind by a plot which wants to put them in the kitchen more than it wants to let them out into the world.

I don&#039;t think characters like Bella let the book down. I feel the book lets characters like Bella down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, and I want to add that I generally feel for the Bella-esque heroines in fiction. I don&#8217;t expect every female character to be perfect, super-strong, amazingly intelligent, always do the right thing etc. I find myself empathising with &#8216;typical girl characters&#8217; and their struggles and weaknesses, depending on how well-written they are, and I find myself willing them on to grow, to show new strengths, to wise up that the bad boy isn&#8217;t worth it: to act like a real person and grow. I root for them, that the author may give them bigger parts, help them to learn to help themselves, and show them as capable of great things, despite insecurities or weaknesses. I want them to blossom, to begin to push the boundaries of the role they thought they had. And you&#8217;d think this works well in fantastical series, but no. Unfortunately, most authors never get past &#8216;girl with insecurities who obsesses about boys&#8217;. I like my heroines to transcend these normal problems, to learn and grow. I tend to just get girls who are left behind by a plot which wants to put them in the kitchen more than it wants to let them out into the world.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think characters like Bella let the book down. I feel the book lets characters like Bella down.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Onne</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/03/ok-mzbitca/#comment-1549</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Onne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombitchez.wordpress.com/?p=1193#comment-1549</guid>
		<description>OO bloggers I respect doing Twilight liveblogging!

I agree that readers shouldn&#039;t get mad at Bella. I&#039;m an anime fan, and all too often, fans both male and female are really down on the female characters. Yes, a character may be boy-obsessed, or weak, or not do anything or make any choices, but she&#039;s tht way because someone has written the plot in a way that makes her a prisoner to her gender as other people see her. It&#039;s definitely important to analyse what role the author has put her in, and criticise the messages, but we should be careful not to &#039;hate&#039; a female character simply for being female and being cast in the role society expects of women.

I think the portrayal of Bella could be more balanced (we&#039;ve all been obsessional teens, but even obsessive teens think about more than just boys), but it&#039;s not Bella&#039;s fault but the author&#039;s and society&#039;s as a whole. A big part of the problem isn&#039;t that Bella&#039;s imperfect (though she does seem to lack depth and strengths and motivations to balance the weaknesses) but that this obsessive, abusive relationship is presented as the be-all and end-all. Typical that fans might hate Bella whilst empathising with her, and love Edward, though. The creepiness of the stalking, overprotective-to-a-fault, patronising chivalrous protect-you-from-yourself behaviour is like the definition of mainstream romance to a lot of people. Wrong, seriously wrong.

Mind you, I&#039;m spitting feathers about Twilight, and I haven&#039;t read one book in the series yet. I intend to, and liveblogging/taking notes is an excellent way to make sure to catch all the freaky things to show how off a lot of things about the book are. I like to criticise even the series I LOVE, so I find it hard to see people defend Twilight whilst refusing to see it has very troubling elements.

So good luck with the rest of it! :) I look forward to seeing lots of thoughtful feminist perspectives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OO bloggers I respect doing Twilight liveblogging!</p>
<p>I agree that readers shouldn&#8217;t get mad at Bella. I&#8217;m an anime fan, and all too often, fans both male and female are really down on the female characters. Yes, a character may be boy-obsessed, or weak, or not do anything or make any choices, but she&#8217;s tht way because someone has written the plot in a way that makes her a prisoner to her gender as other people see her. It&#8217;s definitely important to analyse what role the author has put her in, and criticise the messages, but we should be careful not to &#8216;hate&#8217; a female character simply for being female and being cast in the role society expects of women.</p>
<p>I think the portrayal of Bella could be more balanced (we&#8217;ve all been obsessional teens, but even obsessive teens think about more than just boys), but it&#8217;s not Bella&#8217;s fault but the author&#8217;s and society&#8217;s as a whole. A big part of the problem isn&#8217;t that Bella&#8217;s imperfect (though she does seem to lack depth and strengths and motivations to balance the weaknesses) but that this obsessive, abusive relationship is presented as the be-all and end-all. Typical that fans might hate Bella whilst empathising with her, and love Edward, though. The creepiness of the stalking, overprotective-to-a-fault, patronising chivalrous protect-you-from-yourself behaviour is like the definition of mainstream romance to a lot of people. Wrong, seriously wrong.</p>
<p>Mind you, I&#8217;m spitting feathers about Twilight, and I haven&#8217;t read one book in the series yet. I intend to, and liveblogging/taking notes is an excellent way to make sure to catch all the freaky things to show how off a lot of things about the book are. I like to criticise even the series I LOVE, so I find it hard to see people defend Twilight whilst refusing to see it has very troubling elements.</p>
<p>So good luck with the rest of it! <img src='http://www.randombabble.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I look forward to seeing lots of thoughtful feminist perspectives.</p>
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		<title>By: Ouyang Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/03/ok-mzbitca/#comment-1548</link>
		<dc:creator>Ouyang Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 23:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombitchez.wordpress.com/?p=1193#comment-1548</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s too bad really, b/c Meyer has done a damned fine job of making the character of Bella pretty terrible.  There is a lot of room for her to really have that kick ass woman protagonist thing there, but she managed to (surprise) take a story that she says is really Bella&#039;s story, and make it all about Edward.  It is supposed to be Bella&#039;s story, but we only hear about or see Edward in all the publicity.  If this is truly Bella&#039;s story, why don&#039;t we see more from her, other than panic attacks at possibly not being w/ her &quot;perpetual savior&quot; every minute of the day?

Younger girls I know who have read these books are telling me &quot;be warned, Bella&#039;s a bitch&quot;*.  To be honest, I can not find what it is that makes them react that way.  They are also a little outraged when I tell them that Edward is abusive (but I am finding the entire relationship to be abusive, but I digress).  When I explain it, they get it, but it takes a lot of careful explanation first.

*I should be clear, I do not approve of that kind of thing.  This should also show how even women and girls are programmed by society.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s too bad really, b/c Meyer has done a damned fine job of making the character of Bella pretty terrible.  There is a lot of room for her to really have that kick ass woman protagonist thing there, but she managed to (surprise) take a story that she says is really Bella&#8217;s story, and make it all about Edward.  It is supposed to be Bella&#8217;s story, but we only hear about or see Edward in all the publicity.  If this is truly Bella&#8217;s story, why don&#8217;t we see more from her, other than panic attacks at possibly not being w/ her &#8220;perpetual savior&#8221; every minute of the day?</p>
<p>Younger girls I know who have read these books are telling me &#8220;be warned, Bella&#8217;s a bitch&#8221;*.  To be honest, I can not find what it is that makes them react that way.  They are also a little outraged when I tell them that Edward is abusive (but I am finding the entire relationship to be abusive, but I digress).  When I explain it, they get it, but it takes a lot of careful explanation first.</p>
<p>*I should be clear, I do not approve of that kind of thing.  This should also show how even women and girls are programmed by society.</p>
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		<title>By: Margosita</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/03/ok-mzbitca/#comment-1547</link>
		<dc:creator>Margosita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 23:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombitchez.wordpress.com/?p=1193#comment-1547</guid>
		<description>I also heard that the actress who play&#039;s Bella gets pretty harsh treatment from fans.  Fans adore Edward, have Edward Cullen fan clubs, etc...  I&#039;m not really surprised, I guess.  Part of the anti-feminist rule book is getting women to hate other women, after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also heard that the actress who play&#8217;s Bella gets pretty harsh treatment from fans.  Fans adore Edward, have Edward Cullen fan clubs, etc&#8230;  I&#8217;m not really surprised, I guess.  Part of the anti-feminist rule book is getting women to hate other women, after all.</p>
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