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	<title>Comments on: No one in this whole damned book drinks coffee</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/</link>
	<description>exactly that</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2011 19:32:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Ouyang Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/#comment-1665</link>
		<dc:creator>Ouyang Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombabble.com/?p=1263#comment-1665</guid>
		<description>Sure, I can&#039;t be absolutely sure, but &lt;a href=&quot;http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this is one that I know of&lt;/a&gt;, which I found rather amusing (despite some areas I found a little problematic, but what am I going to find that isn&#039;t, really?).

Take it w/ a grain of salt, and enjoy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, I can&#8217;t be absolutely sure, but <a href="http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html" rel="nofollow">this is one that I know of</a>, which I found rather amusing (despite some areas I found a little problematic, but what am I going to find that isn&#8217;t, really?).</p>
<p>Take it w/ a grain of salt, and enjoy.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/#comment-1664</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombabble.com/?p=1263#comment-1664</guid>
		<description>Could you please link to the takedown of the books by the former mormon that you are referring to?! I&#039;m incredibly interested in reading that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you please link to the takedown of the books by the former mormon that you are referring to?! I&#8217;m incredibly interested in reading that.</p>
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		<title>By: Dreams and Choice and the Horrors of people liking you&#8230; &#171; random babble&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/#comment-1663</link>
		<dc:creator>Dreams and Choice and the Horrors of people liking you&#8230; &#171; random babble&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombabble.com/?p=1263#comment-1663</guid>
		<description>[...] Twilight blogging here, here, here, here, here, and here.  Be sure to follow the links to the posts by Mzbitca at What a Crazy Random [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Twilight blogging here, here, here, here, here, and here.  Be sure to follow the links to the posts by Mzbitca at What a Crazy Random [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ouyang Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/#comment-1662</link>
		<dc:creator>Ouyang Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombabble.com/?p=1263#comment-1662</guid>
		<description>Ha ha...I made the coffee comment b/c I couldn&#039;t think of a clever title for this post, but yes, that was the point I was trying to make!

Laruent is supposed to be darker, which is convenient since he is of ambiguous morality at this point in the story.  In the book he is olive toned, but in the movie he is black.  That kind of didn&#039;t sit well w/ me when all the &#039;good&#039; vampires were the whitest white ever.

Then there is the issue w/ the Native Americans, which I will get into more when I blog NM, having just finished it.  Meyer talks about how her beliefs heavily influencer her writing.  Then I read where high up prophets preach things like &quot;be sure to marry Native women off w/ white men so they can have lighter children who will be more delightful&quot;, and see pictures from said prophets comparing the children w/ their darker and less &quot;delightful&quot; parents.  I am not saying all of  Mormonism is racist, I know many incredible and wonderful Mormons who would be appalled at such things, but I get the feeling of dark= not delightful, and white being perfect, which falls in line w/ the whitewashing attitude of that prophet.

I am going to talk more about this later, but it has been grating on me again and again.  Authors don&#039;t do anything on accident.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha ha&#8230;I made the coffee comment b/c I couldn&#8217;t think of a clever title for this post, but yes, that was the point I was trying to make!</p>
<p>Laruent is supposed to be darker, which is convenient since he is of ambiguous morality at this point in the story.  In the book he is olive toned, but in the movie he is black.  That kind of didn&#8217;t sit well w/ me when all the &#8216;good&#8217; vampires were the whitest white ever.</p>
<p>Then there is the issue w/ the Native Americans, which I will get into more when I blog NM, having just finished it.  Meyer talks about how her beliefs heavily influencer her writing.  Then I read where high up prophets preach things like &#8220;be sure to marry Native women off w/ white men so they can have lighter children who will be more delightful&#8221;, and see pictures from said prophets comparing the children w/ their darker and less &#8220;delightful&#8221; parents.  I am not saying all of  Mormonism is racist, I know many incredible and wonderful Mormons who would be appalled at such things, but I get the feeling of dark= not delightful, and white being perfect, which falls in line w/ the whitewashing attitude of that prophet.</p>
<p>I am going to talk more about this later, but it has been grating on me again and again.  Authors don&#8217;t do anything on accident.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Onne</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/#comment-1661</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Onne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombabble.com/?p=1263#comment-1661</guid>
		<description>The conflation of whiteness with goodness grates on me not only because it alienates people of different &#039;races&#039; (I use quotation marks because I don&#039;t believe these are easily defineable) and implies that people who are non-white are bad, but that it also encourages racialism (I think that&#039;s the word, correct me if I&#039;m wrong) within a group of people, with paleness within one&#039;s group being seen as an ideal. Whilst the former is more noticeable and more extreme (and rightly gets attention), I think the latter is also important, because it feeds into racism. If someone is encouraged to feel bad and other for not looking that little bit paler, where does it leave those of a completely  different skin colour?

Here the point is because Bella (I&#039;m assuming she&#039;s white because she was in the film, and because I expect someone would have mentioned her being a WOC) fetishises Edward&#039;s whiteness as being a part of his perfection. whilst I&#039;m sure people can talk about him being a corpse and no doubt of some Celtic stock or other, why is it assumed that all white people come in two shades: pale and super-almost-snow-white? I&#039;m just irritated that pure snowy whiteness is always played up, but never with the accompanying rosyness or blotchyness or freckles. Or that you can&#039;t have white people who are just average white, or a little olive complected, or hell, Mediterranean-looking. It&#039;s really bizarre that when skin tone is mentioned in reference to someone being white, it&#039;s always to a pure snowyness that really doesn&#039;t represent most people. It&#039;s just a little too convenient that vampire = perfect white skin = shinysparkly = sex god.

But, more importantly there don&#039;t seem to be any POC vampires (I&#039;d love there to have been some, or vampries who are anything other than pure snowy white, cos that cliche gets old FAST), and since the vampires seem to be the default &#039;heroes/good guys&#039; it&#039;s quite worrying that the POC in the series are literally always the &#039;other&#039; the Werewolves playing a secondary role. This could have been played to effect as a moral about racism, but that requires sensitivity to these themes.

And as for the coffee: I think it necessary to put it in in passing for the same reason I&#039;d find it unusual if no characters smoke: writing a story is like painting a picture, you have to make an effort to add detail that makes it look believable. Whilst I&#039;m not personally enamoured of either, a series where neither is even present in the background would break my suspension of disbelief because it wouldn&#039;t feel real. Part of writing a world is writing characters that wouldn&#039;t necessarily act the way you do, or would agree with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The conflation of whiteness with goodness grates on me not only because it alienates people of different &#8216;races&#8217; (I use quotation marks because I don&#8217;t believe these are easily defineable) and implies that people who are non-white are bad, but that it also encourages racialism (I think that&#8217;s the word, correct me if I&#8217;m wrong) within a group of people, with paleness within one&#8217;s group being seen as an ideal. Whilst the former is more noticeable and more extreme (and rightly gets attention), I think the latter is also important, because it feeds into racism. If someone is encouraged to feel bad and other for not looking that little bit paler, where does it leave those of a completely  different skin colour?</p>
<p>Here the point is because Bella (I&#8217;m assuming she&#8217;s white because she was in the film, and because I expect someone would have mentioned her being a WOC) fetishises Edward&#8217;s whiteness as being a part of his perfection. whilst I&#8217;m sure people can talk about him being a corpse and no doubt of some Celtic stock or other, why is it assumed that all white people come in two shades: pale and super-almost-snow-white? I&#8217;m just irritated that pure snowy whiteness is always played up, but never with the accompanying rosyness or blotchyness or freckles. Or that you can&#8217;t have white people who are just average white, or a little olive complected, or hell, Mediterranean-looking. It&#8217;s really bizarre that when skin tone is mentioned in reference to someone being white, it&#8217;s always to a pure snowyness that really doesn&#8217;t represent most people. It&#8217;s just a little too convenient that vampire = perfect white skin = shinysparkly = sex god.</p>
<p>But, more importantly there don&#8217;t seem to be any POC vampires (I&#8217;d love there to have been some, or vampries who are anything other than pure snowy white, cos that cliche gets old FAST), and since the vampires seem to be the default &#8216;heroes/good guys&#8217; it&#8217;s quite worrying that the POC in the series are literally always the &#8216;other&#8217; the Werewolves playing a secondary role. This could have been played to effect as a moral about racism, but that requires sensitivity to these themes.</p>
<p>And as for the coffee: I think it necessary to put it in in passing for the same reason I&#8217;d find it unusual if no characters smoke: writing a story is like painting a picture, you have to make an effort to add detail that makes it look believable. Whilst I&#8217;m not personally enamoured of either, a series where neither is even present in the background would break my suspension of disbelief because it wouldn&#8217;t feel real. Part of writing a world is writing characters that wouldn&#8217;t necessarily act the way you do, or would agree with.</p>
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		<title>By: Wrapping up Twilight &#171; What a crazy random happenstance</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/#comment-1660</link>
		<dc:creator>Wrapping up Twilight &#171; What a crazy random happenstance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombabble.com/?p=1263#comment-1660</guid>
		<description>[...] Twilight Posts between me and Ouyang Dan: Here, here, here, here, here, here , here, here, here and here. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Collection of Twilight annoyancesNew MoonThe [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Twilight Posts between me and Ouyang Dan: Here, here, here, here, here, here , here, here, here and here. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Collection of Twilight annoyancesNew MoonThe [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dori</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/#comment-1659</link>
		<dc:creator>Dori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombabble.com/?p=1263#comment-1659</guid>
		<description>Not only is there that very obvious connection of white to perfection, her POC characters end up being werewolves.

no, no racist dog whistles there.

not in the least.

/snark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not only is there that very obvious connection of white to perfection, her POC characters end up being werewolves.</p>
<p>no, no racist dog whistles there.</p>
<p>not in the least.</p>
<p>/snark</p>
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		<title>By: Margosita</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/#comment-1658</link>
		<dc:creator>Margosita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 05:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombabble.com/?p=1263#comment-1658</guid>
		<description>Of course no one drinks coffee- it has caffeine and Mormons don&#039;t drink caffeine.

The comment on the continual use of &quot;white&quot; and &quot;pale&quot; etc... is really interesting.  Llencelyn is right, though, there is a deep racist undertone to Mormonism.  I think it&#039;s probably another way Mormonism has influenced the books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course no one drinks coffee- it has caffeine and Mormons don&#8217;t drink caffeine.</p>
<p>The comment on the continual use of &#8220;white&#8221; and &#8220;pale&#8221; etc&#8230; is really interesting.  Llencelyn is right, though, there is a deep racist undertone to Mormonism.  I think it&#8217;s probably another way Mormonism has influenced the books.</p>
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		<title>By: llencelyn</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/#comment-1657</link>
		<dc:creator>llencelyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 07:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombabble.com/?p=1263#comment-1657</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;I am concerned that there is a mentality that white=beautiful, which leads me to worry that anything else isn’t worthy. &lt;/I&gt;

I preface this by saying I am no expert, but the takedown of the books by the former Mormon that I read indicated that this is actually a very very prevalent theme in Mormonism. So...you&#039;re not imagining the connection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I am concerned that there is a mentality that white=beautiful, which leads me to worry that anything else isn’t worthy. </i></p>
<p>I preface this by saying I am no expert, but the takedown of the books by the former Mormon that I read indicated that this is actually a very very prevalent theme in Mormonism. So&#8230;you&#8217;re not imagining the connection.</p>
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		<title>By: Ouyang Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.randombabble.com/2008/12/16/no-one-in-this-whole-damned-book-drinks-coffee/#comment-1656</link>
		<dc:creator>Ouyang Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 06:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://randombabble.com/?p=1263#comment-1656</guid>
		<description>Well, Pido, I should add that while this isn&#039;t The Worst Book Evah (as I previously mentioned, I did not finish &lt;i&gt;The Vampire LeStat&lt;/i&gt;, and someone once gave me a book called &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Captivating-Unveiling-Mystery-Womans-Soul/dp/0785264698&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Captivated&lt;/a&gt;, which I can not bring myself to read), but it was seriously The Worst Movie Evah.  Please see my review.  Although, if you can see it when a bunch of fankids are seeing it, go w/ someone else who might be willing to laugh at it too...good times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Pido, I should add that while this isn&#8217;t The Worst Book Evah (as I previously mentioned, I did not finish <i>The Vampire LeStat</i>, and someone once gave me a book called <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Captivating-Unveiling-Mystery-Womans-Soul/dp/0785264698" rel="nofollow">Captivated</a>, which I can not bring myself to read), but it was seriously The Worst Movie Evah.  Please see my review.  Although, if you can see it when a bunch of fankids are seeing it, go w/ someone else who might be willing to laugh at it too&#8230;good times.</p>
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